But, if you play 4312, you width is from the full backs, so they will likeky push on, abd then a midfielder will likely drop as extra cover, and you end up with a 3412 kind of formation anyway.
Otherwise its all so cramped in the middle of the pitch.
The back 3 can work if the right or keft CB drops into full back to cover, which i think we are trying, but with only Anders being lefty, its hard to manage it with his injuries.
Could do with Taylor Allen - ( interesting that players were posting Salfords insta on him being up for player of the month, think many didnt want him gone)
Maybe im going a bit football manager though, but i did guide Cowdenbeath to European domination.
But insisting we play a formation when we don’t have the right players available (4 wings back needed imo -given 60mins max each per game OR you have absolute specimens of athlete that can last 90 mins twice a week - , a left sided CB as per your comments) is as close to batshit crazy as you can get.
It’s asking for the sort of trouble we had vs Reading - defensive frailties, second guessing, players not available to pass to and getting pinned back in your own 1/3.
Having two right sided centre backs in a 4 with a genuinely left sided full back is much better than having a right sided player on the left of a 3. Unless they are very very good with both feet.
one of your full back does provided the width on one side, but so does one of your midfielders on the other
A 4312 formation can progress up the pitch from that in the defensive 1/3 to a 343/3412 in the midfield third to a 325 in the final third (all in possession, obviously)
with on of those two “holding” midfielders drilled to cover the marauding full back if we are caught during the transition.
Im not saying its wrong, as I do think they will be sort of the same. It would need Morley to be Busquetsesque in dropping between split CBs and picking the ball up to dictate play. He can probably do it.
I just dont really like 4231 as it doesn’t get the best from the midfield. 433 maybe works but I worry that leaves the CF a bit isolated.
Except Morley hasn’t been picked to start recently. Or been in as good a form as he can be when he has played.
So in short, Your asking for a formation to work when we don’t have the wing backs to do it, the left sided centre back available to play and a midfield player that has to be at the very top of his game - every game - to pull it off.
Sure, when all of those stars align, the formation will work.
When they don’t align - And they didn’t really vs a flat Wigan and certainly didn’t in the first half vs Reading - we and the formation looks abhorrent.
With the players we have right now, the stars are going to be misaligned more than they are aligned.
Rule 1 for me is play the formation that fits the players. Don’t make the players fit the formation.
Is 4312 the best formation? Maybe not.
But I think it fits the players we have (with the only real question mark for me being right back right now because I think grimmer is carrying an injury and Parker is better going forward) better than a wingback formation.
No, I was saying if we play 4312 we will need a deep lying midfielder to split the 2 defenders and also pick up the ball from deep. I would say Morley is the best at doing that.
I dont 4312 or 352 I just feel we need to get the best players in the middle.
Do that and every team does what Reading did - put 6 in and around the centre circle and watch us flounder. We had three of our best 4 midfielders in the middle (I don’t think Morley starting would have changed anything in that regard) and Reading blocked them out of the game.
The issue isn’t getting your best players in the middle. It’s creating the space to allow them to play.
Hendo Morley Scowen and CBM are all very good at getting the ball off of the CB as you describe, with the first two probably the best at it. We have the players to do that. We don’t have the wingbacks to play a 5.
The wingbacks have to be some of your best players to make it work. We have one good wingback (maybe even excellent) and some that can play there.
Anders - is he one of those players that is getting better because he’s not available?
Since he signed we have played 78 league games - 7020 minutes.
Anders has managed to get on the pitch for 30 games only - 2371 minutes.
If you ignore his first season, we’ve played 54 games and he’s been available for 28, a little over 50%.
I’m a bit concerned about pinning all our hopes on a CB that is regularly unavailable and who is defensively not the best. He’s generally good on the ball and going forwards.
I think he got better as he played. But he has the ability to make some very wild and naive decisions.
He is, however, the only left sided centre back we have in the club so if we are to play with 3 cb he just has to be one of them. Thats why he is a necessity in my eye, rather than only just on ability.
The two that played there vs Reading both struggled and I think cook would too. He’s the only round peg for that hole, even with his shortcomings .
There are three things Anders does well (for me) that would make him a shoe in.
Pass the ball with his left foot. It means he can let the ball run across him and naturally play it out wide towers Harvie with one touch.
He can receive the ball and run into space with it. Maybe not as good as Taylor did when on loan with us, but is decent. He can recieve it can carry it forward into space.
He can ping diagonal balls out for fun and with decent accuracy.
Three options to quickly play around the sort of press we struggled with vs Reading, with a single or quick two touches. . A right footed player can do things things too, but it’s not as quick and as natural as a left footer player and the player can’t shield the ball with his body while it’s on his good foot, unless he turns and faces the wrong way or you constantly drive/pass into the middle of the pitch.
I have the same concerns as you in regards to relying on him, which is one of the reasons I wouldn’t persist with the wingback system (Harvie being injured would be similarly disastrous)
If only we have a player that we hadn’t loaned out to Walsall that could cover those positions .
Caleb Taylor is right footed, and it didn’t seem to impact him that much. I’d also argue that the current version of Connor Taylor has looked very at ease on the left side of a two or a three and his distribution etc has significantly improved since returning to the starting XI post Bolton away last season.
I disagree on Taylor Allen, he really found the step up to League One hard and he is arguably not quite good enough to be a left back or a left centre back at this level. Left wing back maybe. However, he was just as bad as Connor Taylor was in his first 6 months here, so maybe he would have seen similar improvement if we had stuck with him.
There’s a reason Caleb is playing at an established championship side and not league one though. I didn’t say a right sided player couldn’t play it,I just that it’s easier to do for at an average league one level player, which is what our defenders are.
I can’t say I agree that Connor Taylor was good in the left sided berth but he did have a better half there than Casey did (although an early booking for him may not have helped)
Allen wouldn’t have been my starter, for sure. But I think he would have been useful cover for Harvie primarily and the left side of defence at a push. Whether he would have been happy as cover, though is of course a big question.
I agree. Also I think Harvie is a better player with Anders behind him! In the Reading game he was too far forward all the game thus making us vulnerable to Readings counter attacks and high press. Two examples were in the first half Taylor went ballistic with him for being to far forward and not giving him an outlet when he was being pressured on the ball by Readings high press. The second example was after Reading broke quickly Harvie ambled back from high up the pitch almost jogging either because he was knackered or knew that it he wasn’t going to get back in time.
It’s a small thing, but an important one and that’s any natural curve you have with firm passing with a left of right foot.
A left footed player naturally bends the ball left to right and so with a pass up the wing to an advanced Harvie, if he’s gone long, is easier to complete than a right footed pass which may curve off the pitch.
Unless they play it on the outside of the boot. And I like a bit of trivela action like the best of them, but not from my centre back under a press
I thought Harvie looked really lethargic in the first half, the game was passing him by. Second half with Parker down the right seemed to help ease the left side.
